Episode 043: Conversation with LeDerick Horne - Part III - “Dare to Dream”
LeDerick talks about a multimedia approached to activism, making a Youtube series on Celebrating Black History & People with Disabilities, and starting up a TikTok account (see links below)—and the importance of recognizing that for most people with disabilities, the information is transmitted peer to peer, rather than parent to child. At most of his events, he notices that parents are sitting on the sidelines, and the kids are interacting about the best apps to use for accommodations—we’re not going to read the book, access the study, but we can listen to a podcast. David jumps in about a shared oral history and the access to that oral history is geography—and now podcasts can overcome that. Given the history of segregation, and New Jersey being the 6th most segregated state in the nation, and living in a blue color, primarily black and Latinx community—you need to be able to cross over to other parts of town and communities to access information. Segregation cuts us off from resources, from information, and the power of having these conversations for everyone to be able to find out in the world. The power of sports or other activities to bring people together—he was able to meet folks that were not in special ed because he ran track and cross country. If he had just stayed in those classrooms, he wouldn’t have had access to them professionally. LeDerick was invited to Harvard, the UN, the White House—connecting to others with a shared passion and from all walks of life. LD/ADHD crosses all lines, and it’s important to recognize, and there is privilege that comes in there and makes the experience of being LD/ADHD so different. David names—when we’re talking about people in this world, whether the color of their skin, their neurodivergence, their gender—there isn’t one way to receive a message in this world. And there’s no way for a message to become universal, and it stretches, and we need to have these conversations more often, not just the right way. It’s important to honor choice and agency—and with LD and ADHD, we’re looking at exceptional people that are being missed. There are people who could be potentially curing major diseases, changing the world, we’re losing resources by ignoring people. LeDerick went to school with some folks who he looked up to intellectually, artistically, and who were in the same classrooms as him—and whether it was resources at home, luck—the story ended very differently. The three of us—LeDerick, David, and Isabelle—we’re the survivors, we’re the ones who made. As he takes his last breath, LeDerick wants to know he’s made the world a better place, so no one has to go through the same sort of suffering. David drops the transmuting internalization—it’s the quantum leap of psychology, you don’t want others to suffer as you do and you go back and try to the right the wrong that was done to you, for someone else. David doesn’t want people to suffer, but he wants people to suffer (not as a jerk)—but he is what he is because of what he suffered. But what are the right ways to suffer? There’s a lot of needless suffering. There’s a lot of bad returns on investment, so being able to right these wrongs, and wanting to correct something that’s wrong in the world, they can feel it, because they can tell that you’re not correcting them. This makes Isabelle thing of trauma mastery, and how we can be unconsciously drawn to scenarios and relationships that reenact the trauma we suffered because we want to rewrite the script this time. And also the difference between pain and suffering, and there’s some disease (leprosy or Hansen's disease) that numbs your ability to tell you’ve had an injury, so you keep going and keep going and this leads to infections and loss of fingers, etc. (See below)—the idea of pain as a messenger, as something that indicates you need to notice something so you can change it, versus suffering as feeling isolated and stuck in that pain and aloneness. Trauma work as requiring community, and connection and vulnerability, and how trauma can’t be healed in isolation. David loses his thought around how this connects to inclusion, and the three pause for an insert, and then he thinks of what he wanted to say! He pulls up the example of PTSD rates and how countries that are facing war, like Israel, might be assumed to have the highest rates of PTSD—and yet Israel has the lowest rate, which relates to how when people return from being in military service, everyone gets it (because it’s required and thus more commonly experienced). David is not listening to LeDerick and Isabelle’s story trying to figure out what’s wrong with them, they’re just listening and sharing and gaining that common experience. Trauma reenactments can be scary, and around inclusion, everyone can have an accommodation and individualized education. Who wouldn’t benefit from an individualized education plan? What if everyone had it and it’s not a weird thing. LeDerick talks about his friend Mark McLendon. He had an emotional breakdown in his early 20s, leaves a family event and lays down in the car, going through it. Through the glass, his friend Mark knocks, and he said “you know, I don’t exactly know what you’re going through right now, and I know in this world that has a lot of suffering, but none of us has to suffer alone.” There’s the idea of the dignity of failure, and there’s a desire to wrap kids in a protective bubbles, and it’s not treating you like a human being, we fall, we get our knees scraped, mistakes happen-you don’t want to be so fragile that when that happens you break. It’s important to go through the experience with words. David asks LeDerick if he could gift us with some poetry, and he graciously does, sharing the poem he wrote to high school kids: Dare to Dream. It’s incredible, please listen to it now! It speaks to 10 year old Isabelle, and David was sort of expecting poetry (womp womp) and instead he saw him grabbing his hand and getting him out, and then wow. He tried for 8 years to record LeDerick speaking this poem to no avail. LeDerick remembered going to a Dare to Dream conference out of the New Jersey Office of Special Education and Bob Haugh, was encouraging him to put to words the specific experience and communication to the kids at the conference, witnessing these panels--and like so many things, the specific became more general and resonant.
More on LeDerick Horne
(here's a brief bio)
(here's his amazing link tree)
LeDerick and Dr. Margo Izzo’s book, Empowering Students with Hidden Disabilities: A Path to Pride and Success
Black and Dyslexic Podcast (hosted by Winifred Winston and LeDerick Horne)
Celebrating Black History and People with Disabilities - Youtube series
A glimpse of LeDerick's live events - from the Nevada Student Leadership Transition Summit (NSLTS)
New Jersey Coalition for Inclusive Education
All in for Inclusive Education
Random Things We Mentioned:
Cheers - It’s a sitcom about a bar with the theme song: “sometimes you wanna go, where everybody knows your name, and they’re always glad you came…”
Leprosy/Hansen’s disease as a disease that numbs your pain and thus leads to loss of fingers, etc.
Israel having the lowest rate of PTSD
Article from Vanity Fair: “Despite decades of intermittent war, the Israel Defense Forces have a PTSD rate as low as 1 percent. Two of the foremost reasons have to do with national military service and the proximity of the combat—the war is virtually on their doorstep. “Being in the military is something that most people have done,” I was told by Dr. Arieh Shalev, who has devoted the last 20 years to studying PTSD….According to Shalev, the closer the public is to the actual combat, the better the war will be understood and the less difficulty soldiers will have when they come home. The Israelis are benefiting from what could be called the shared public meaning of a war. Such public meaning—which would often occur in more communal, tribal societies—seems to help soldiers even in a fully modern society such as Israel. It is probably not generated by empty, reflexive phrases—such as “Thank you for your service”—that many Americans feel compelled to offer soldiers and vets. If anything, those comments only serve to underline the enormous chasm between military and civilian society in this country.”
DAVID'S DEFINITIONS
Disproportionality: the racial or ethnic differences that exist in how students with learning differences are identified, placed, and disciplined—for example, how black and brown students with ADHD might be labeled as having Oppositional Defiant Disorder or “behavioral issues” while white students are identified as having ADHD and thus treated very differently.
Learning Difference (LD): Because learning disability is a crummy, inaccurate term. For example, David does not have a learning disability, he has a sitting still disability.
Inclusion/Inclusive Education: This refers to the idea that all students should have an equal opportunity to learn, and relates to parts of the law and education system that attempt to achieve this by acknowledging it is more effective and socially beneficial for all students (as research and endless evidence shows) to be in classrooms and experiences together, rather than segregated into different tracks or programs. For a much more thorough description of all of the nuances around this, check out:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclusion_(education)
Individualized Education Plan (IEP): is for someone with learning or emotional needs in a classroom. An IEP is a legal contract with a school, that specifies the accommodations and modifications available for a student. IEPs are tailored for each individual student who qualifies. While it is similar to a 504 plan, or another type of plan that has recommendations that schools can follow, an IEP is more formal and structured, and increases the amount of supports a school can provide. IEPs are provided in public schools in the United States. To get an IEP, a child has to demonstrate the need for an IEP over a 504 plan, and be assessed by the school. For a big guide to IEPs, check this out.
Resiliency: you’re not going to shatter, whatever happens, it’s not going to destroy you.
Transmuting internalization - the Quantum Leap of psychology: going back and righting a wrong that happened to you, for somebody else. This is a term David borrows from Kohut’s Self-Psychology, and the idea that you can develop the thin inside you that you were missing when you were growing up.
Trauma - An event, injury, or situation that overwhelms your capacity to cope and leaves you in a state of feeling even momentarily collapsed—-you can’t fight, or flee, or freeze and wait for more data anymore, you actually feel like you are about to die. Folks with ADHD can be confused for each other, and are often interrelated—more on this topic to come in future episodes!
Trauma Mastery - Healing from your own injury by re-visiting or recreating situations with the hope that things will play out differently this time—eg. The person who becomes a therapist and helps survivors of trauma because they needed someone to listen and be there for them in their own time of pain.
Trauma Reenactment - finding yourself drawn to and repeating cycles around the initial injury that occurred (e.g. you find yourself in relationships that wound you in the same way your initial trauma happened)—this can be unconscious, and dangerous when it happens without awareness and help, because you keep getting re-exposed to traumatic things again and again.
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Cover Art by: Sol Vázquez
Technical Support by: Bobby Richards
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